Wednesday, February 08, 2006

Product Development question; chance to enact change!

Ok, so suppose you were a brand manager of a bike company and were developing a cyclocross bike. You'd have lots of things to consider in the process; frame material, component spec, fork choice, types of braze-ons, etc... it gets a little dizzying.

So dizzying, in fact, that you turn to your loyal blog readers and ask them for help in the process so you can go to sleep and get rid of the thumping headache you haven't been able to shake for 3 days. That's what you would do...

Here is your chance to be an active participant and make your vote count (again);

Price not being the issue (to some extent anyway for this process), would you rather have A) a 'cross bike with an all-aluminum frame and disc brake mounts (with fork with disc mounts too) or B) an aluminum frame with carbon seat stay and no disc mount compatibility?

Disc brake adaptability or not?

The clock is ticking in this development cycle, so vote now!

Tim

24 comments:

Tom said...

Woohoo! First comment!

I vote for no disc mounts and carbon stays. Please include eyelets for fenders.

Keep up the good work, Tim!

masibestfriend said...

no disk, are the UCI legal yet for CC?

jeff rowe said...

no disc, no carbon.
I prefer three cables along the top of the top tube, but NOBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD does.

George said...

I love my Surly Cross-Check, but I'd love it more if it had cable discs...........

Arleigh said...

What grade aluminum?
What about carbon stays with disc mounts? I'm guessing it's not affordable since you have to have extra material etc etc.


Reasoning : The person looking for the carbon stays is using the bike more universally. Which means these are the folks that would want ISO mounts.

If not I say carbon stays/ aluminum/ canti. Carbon seatpost I'm assumming & carbon fork with decent hbars.


Then again a decent price aluminum frame is needed out there.

Again what price points are we talking here?

shawn adams said...

i can't wait to get a masi cross bike.....my vote is...all Eastion ultral lite tubes no disk....all carbon fork...lots of mud clearance...for us northern cross fools....

andy said...

IT would depend on component spec. If the bike is going to have full ultegra with STi shifters, carbon fork, 38/48 chainrings and a 11-25 cassette (e.g. a definite racer spec) give me carbon stays and no disc tabs. (also put good brakes on it, like Empella or Mafac style cantis)

If you're going to spec it with bar-end shifters, 105/Tiagra, etc etc give me a frame with disc mounts. Hell, just spec it with cable-actuated discs if that's the case....

James said...

Cool, I love cross bikes! I would go with all oversized aluminum, even an aluminum fork. No carbon for cross. I think the bike should definitely have water bottle cage braze-ons. I hate those race oriented “pure cross bikes” that leave them off. Most riders use cross bikes for dirt road training and light trail riding, so bottles are a good thing. If someone wants to remove them to race, it’s no big deal. What’s an extra couple of grams on a mudcaked bike anyway?

I have never ridden a cross bike with disc brakes, but I am pretty happy with my old style XT cantilevers (in my opinion, the best ever made). Hydraulic disc brakes don’t work well on bikes that are slung around or possibly turned upside down. Mechanical disc, well they just don’t work as well as dialed in cantilevers. Keep it simple with cantilevers.

I would spec at least 9 speed Ultegra with a clamp-on front der. The only deviation from the grouppo I would consider (other than the canti’s of course) would be a compact crankset.

Hey wait, this description is starting to sound a lot like my current cross bike. Oh well, I know what I like.

a2 said...

Disc brakes are still not uci legal...so leave the mounts off....besides, cantis work just fine on cx bikes, no need for the extra weight of discs. Carbon stays would be nice and several other mfgs are offering this now, but in reality an all aluminum frame will be lighter will perform as well and cost less. One problem with cross bikes is that they are somewhat "multi-purpose". Are you making a hardcore race bike, or a bike that will be desired by commuters? Or both? If both, compromises will need to be made. Since Jeff brought it up in his post: I think most racers would prefer all top tube routed cables (I know I would)....

Anonymous said...

Go steel!!!!

James said...

I forgot to mention it earlier, but I agree with the previous comments about cable routing. Three cables on the top tube with a top pull front derailleur is a good setup. Even down in the balmy south I have had enough ice build up under the bottom bracket to mess up front shifting with traditional under the BB routing.

Based on Jeff’s comment, I am curious who doesn't like the three cables on top set up.

wherethehekismarkman said...

tim,
disc brakes are out, top mounted cables are in, carbon in the rear end might be nice, but all aluminum stays with a nice hourglass figure is a good way to go--besides an all steel frame of course. the more clearance in the rear end and fork the better.

Bernie said...

I choose B; definitely B. If racers don't need discs, neither does anybody else. The carbon stay will add a lot of bling to your bike, and if you have to leave disc mounts of to do it... oh well.

Anonymous said...

disc tabs are OK but not important. Carbon only if it does not add weight.
9 spd would be great! spec the bike with ultegra 9 spd!!
everyone is going to 10 spd to be like the pros, But the pros have 2 or 3 bikes to switch throught the race when the bike gets muddy and the 10 speed stops working. there is a reason why MTB still use 9 spd.

also top tube cable routing is the way to go. All of the euro bikes do it to free up the down and keep the cables away from the mud.
and please do not make the bike a compact!! I hate knocking my elbows trying to get into a compact frame to cary the bike. it is so much easier carring a standard geomerty bike.
And Please do not make a cross bike that is part cross part commuter/winter bike/ touring. There are bikes out there for all of these uses and to many companys try and make 1 bike for everything and no one buys them because they buy a bike built for what they do.
ok I am done ranting

Paterfamilias said...

Disc Mounts all the way!

Ryan Rish said...

A Masi Cross Bike? Saaaweeeet!

I can't wait to race a masi cross rig. my two Alan rigs are already cringing in the basement in fear.

my 2 cents as a cross racer, disk mounts out, top cable routing in. make it the real deal cross racing rig.

Chad said...

Is SLX an option?
No disc mounts. Rear rack, front low-rider, fender, and spoke braze ons. Maybe even a chain hanger. Definitely banjo routing on the top tube. Barcon shifters (cables run all the way to the stem). Better yet make it a single speed!
Is a 650b wheel too much to ask? Maybe S&S couplers? Did you even make it this far? If so...
Just make an aluminum frame with carbon stays and fork. Give it a slick paint job and you're golden. It is a Masi after all. Are there geometry options? Or have they already been set in stone?
Is Suntour still in business...


check out cycletee.com

iruntheteam said...

My CC experts on A&F Cycling p/b Inferno say aluminum/carbon stays & fork with no disc! I trust my guys. Can't wait to rock them for you!

SanDiego81 said...

carbon or alu stays, no disc mounts. It sounds like this is going to be a racy-type bike, so you might as well make sure people will actually be able to race it.

RIch H said...

CX bikes? They are fun to ride not so fun to race.

Dont knwo if it was mentioned yet (didnt see it), along with al cables top mounted, a shaped top tube with a flat bottom would be nice for carrying.

I'd say skip on the carbon stays. I dont like weight increasing joints. An all AL bike is lighter and looks better in my opinion. Unless you are using a Deda carbon box stay, then it is hot dodo!!

stupid said...

No Carbon. Disc Mounts add versatility. But keep the canti mounts, to be UCI legal for those that may be able to race those. Top cables for sure.

iheartbikes said...

You should make it a purely cross bike not that one bike to do it all kind of thing... either make a cross bike or not... a commuter/touring bike is great but not what a cross racer wants... also make it canti with carbon stays and i would love steel but i understand the aluminum is going to be lighter... if you could do something like VooDoo is doing and make it possible to convet to single speed... that would be even better...

one lsat thing don't listen a thing chad has to say...

iheartbikes

Anonymous said...

option A

haggisman said...

a banana seat and coaster brake so Tim could ride one too